Cabin Fever: Nora Kirkpatrick on exploring relationships in 'A Tree Fell in the Woods'
Nora Kirkpatrick has burst onto the scene with her debut feature 'A Tree Fell in the Woods', and she joins us for a delightful deep dive into her creative process. With a cast that reads like a who's who of talent—Alexandra Daddario, Daveed Diggs, Josh Gad, and Ashley Park—Kirkpatrick explores her desire to present multiple perspectives on a singular event, ensuring no character becomes the "bad guy".
Nora reflects on the painstaking yet exhilarating journey of bringing her vision to life, comparing it to rock climbing—setting seemingly unreachable goals and figuring out how to scale those heights. Our conversation reveals the myriad challenges of indie filmmaking, from securing financing to assembling a dream cast, while exploring the film's thematic core: how a single event—a tree falling on New Year's Eve—unleashes a cascade of changes in everyone's lives.
Transcript
You are listening to the we need to Talk About Oscar podcast, and this is our conversation with Nora Kirkpatrick, writer director of A Tree Fell in the woods, premiering at this year's Tribeca.
Speaker B:You know, I wanted to argue with myself, basically.
Speaker B:I wanted to present four different people with very different viewpoints on the same event, and I wanted all of their viewpoints to be valid, to not really make anyone the bad guy or anyone the good guy, to really live in this kind of gray zone.
Speaker B:The nice thing about directing something that you've written is you have seen it in your head so many times, so you have a pretty good understanding of how it could go.
Speaker B:And then when you add in these amazing elements of the performers who come with their own personalities and their own approaches, then you have it in your head how it could go.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then you see it how it is going.
Speaker B:And sometimes that's way better, and sometimes it's just very different from how you imagine.
Speaker B:So then the directing piece is melding those two thoughts together into the best version of what's in front of you.
Speaker A:First and foremost, Nora, thank you so, so much for taking the time.
Speaker B:I'm happy to be here.
Speaker A:You've starred in both film and TV shows and written for and directed TV directed shorts like longtime listener for Some Color.
Speaker A:But your first feature coming to life, that's quite a milestone.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How does it feel?
Speaker A:What's that like being on the brink of your debut feature being finally out in the world?
Speaker B:It's very thrilling.
Speaker B:And, you know, I've been thinking a lot about, like, goal setting recently for some reason, and I feel like specifically in this world, it's like, not that I rock climb, because I don't, but when I see them do it, they like put that.
Speaker B:I should know the verbiage here.
Speaker B:They put those pegs, like, higher than they are, and then they have to figure out a way to get up to them.
Speaker B:And I feel like that's kind of what this career is.
Speaker B:A bit like you set the goal farther than you actually know how to get there, the logistics of it, and then you figure out a way to do it.
Speaker B:And that's kind of what this feature felt like.
Speaker B:I felt very ready to make one and I felt that I had a script that would come across well.
Speaker B:And then you just have to figure out a way to get it done.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is, once again, thank you.
Speaker A:Perfect segue for me because having been on both sides of the camera and in writers rooms with this once again, aforementioned extensive experience, what was the balance, or what were the proportions between wanting to get your debut feature made one way or another, versus being patient for the right story, can cast, crew, budget, everything to align at the right moment in the right place?
Speaker A:Just everything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's such a balance of.
Speaker B:There's so many elements at play in terms of the actors that you want to work with when they're available, the financing when that's available, the location.
Speaker B:I mean, so it's this truly kind of a miracle, I feel like, when any feature comes together, and especially an indie feature, because without the studio support system really chugging that along, there are all of these elements that could crumble at any moment.
Speaker B:So the fact that we were able to do this with such an incredible cast and shoot it kind of in the way that we wanted to is something I'm incredibly grateful for and feel very in awe of that we even got to pull that off.
Speaker B:So there were many times when I thought that this wouldn't happen, like, many, many times.
Speaker B:But you just kind of keep going and you have to be.
Speaker B:Well, I had to be very patient, and that's just part of it.
Speaker B:But then when it happens, it's such a fulfilling dream.
Speaker B:So it kind of makes the whole year or so of, I won't say turmoil, but speed bumps really worth it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And what an impressive cast you've assembled, like Josh Gadd, Alexander Daddario, David Dix, Ashley Park.
Speaker A:How did this part of the film and production come together?
Speaker A:Was there a particular order?
Speaker A:Did landing one actor help attract the others?
Speaker A:How did that work out?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think there was a bit of that.
Speaker B:Alex and Josh were kind of the first two in, and then, you know, Daveed and Ashley came pretty quickly after.
Speaker B:So that, luckily, was a fairly quick process.
Speaker B:And all of the actors were people I had been dreaming about working with.
Speaker B:So I was thrilled that they were excited to do it.
Speaker B:But, you know, also is part of that is due to agents who luckily loved the movie and then were sending it to their clients on our behalf, which is such a lovely thing when that happens, because it's nice to have that.
Speaker B:Those kind of voices that the actors really trust advocating for the film.
Speaker B:So there was a lot of that going on.
Speaker B:But these four people were people that I've been wanting to work with for years and had never met before this film.
Speaker B:And they.
Speaker B:Not only did they get along well, they got along too well because.
Speaker B:Because we were having too much fun to the point where I would have to be like, we need to stop laughing and start shooting.
Speaker B:So it was a really.
Speaker B:The alchemy of their four personalities was wonderful and continues to be fun.
Speaker A:Love to hear that.
Speaker A:And yeah, it shows.
Speaker A:It absolutely shows in the film itself as well.
Speaker A:And as for the story itself, it's almost funny to call the falling of something like a huge tree a butterfly effect.
Speaker A:But that's it, exactly what it is here.
Speaker A:So I guess do you personally believe in these kinds of catalytic moments?
Speaker A:Do you see certain turning points, maybe even in your own career, as having that same kind of unexpected impact?
Speaker B:Oh my gosh, Yes.
Speaker B:I mean, 100%.
Speaker B:There have been so many times in my life that are complete sliding doors moments, like if I didn't go to this one place, I didn't meet this one person that changed the next 10 years of my life.
Speaker B:And I have several moments like that in my life and I feel, I think I go through periods of time of being more receptive to it than others.
Speaker B:Like if I'm in a very open space, I'm more receptive to kind of I'm going to get a little woo woo.
Speaker B:But like the energy of the universe speaking to me.
Speaker B:And then I go through periods of time where I'm like tunnel vision, head down, I'm doing what I'm doing.
Speaker B:And I'm like not really open to outside input from the universe at this time, but I can pinpoint several moments in my Life where literally 10 years has been affected by one conversation.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And something that this butterfly effect.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:The tree in this movie sets off a series of events that would not have otherwise happened.
Speaker B:And I was really excited to follow that down the rabbit hole, this one tree falls.
Speaker B:And the ramifications of that will affect these people's life for at least 10 years.
Speaker B:And I think that's cool to think about.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And yeah, just I just watching the film, two couples, a snowstorm, an isolated cabin in the woods.
Speaker A:This is all the makings of a horror film.
Speaker B:Like I know, I know that.
Speaker B:That is something I've heard before.
Speaker B:And you're not wrong.
Speaker B:Like you're right, you would think it is a horror film.
Speaker B:But I guess I like to think of it as like an emotional horror film or like an emotional thriller.
Speaker B:You know, even this is a spoiler.
Speaker B:Nobody dies.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But a lot of other things get broken.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:You don't have to answer this, of course.
Speaker A:But did you ever consider pushing it, I mean, the film or even the story in that direction?
Speaker B:I thought about it.
Speaker B:I thought about it early on, but then I felt like we have a lot of Those I felt like we have a lot of Cabin in the woods horror movies.
Speaker B:And also I was really interested in doing something that was for actors, like a real actor's piece where they get to stand and deliver and they get to do these 10 page scenes and do it.
Speaker B:And I almost felt that veering off into horror would take away from that.
Speaker B:And not that a horror film can't contain those elements, but in this particular situation, I didn't want to lighten it.
Speaker B:I didn't want to go anywhere else.
Speaker B:I wanted to keep it really centered on the emotional aspects of their life getting murdered and not they themselves.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:I wanted to keep it there and then when I.
Speaker B:And it was also a challenge for me to see, like, can I do an hour and a half movie in one location that will keep people interested in that has enough twists and turns to where you don't quite know what's gonna happen.
Speaker B:But there's a lot going on without car chase sequences and having someone die.
Speaker B:It was just a challenge to myself.
Speaker B:And I like car chase sequences and I like horror films as well.
Speaker B:But I just wanted to see if I could do it.
Speaker B:And then when I got to the end of the script and people started reading it, I felt like, I think maybe we can do this and keep it in this way and it'll have enough elements for the audience to want to stay for the hour and a half.
Speaker B:So that was my goal.
Speaker A:Absolutely makes sense.
Speaker A:And yeah, the film explores how different couples, specifically these two, handle conflicts secrets in completely different ways.
Speaker A:What was it about these particular relationship dynamics and putting the similarities and differences next to each other that felt essential to your story?
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, I wanted to argue with myself, basically.
Speaker B:I wanted to present four different people with very different viewpoints on the same event.
Speaker B:And I wanted all of their viewpoints to be valid.
Speaker B:To not really make anyone the bad guy or anyone the good guy, to really live in this kind of gray zone that relationships are complicated, they are a thousand layers deep.
Speaker B:Everything you say has a thousand ideas behind it, both from yourself, how you grew up and from the world around you.
Speaker B:Like, every line and every moment of anyone's life is just layered in history.
Speaker B:And so I wanted to get these four different viewpoints and let them battle it out.
Speaker B:And so for me, in the writing process, that was me arguing with myself of how do I make each of these people really valid and how do I feel for each of them, no matter what they've done or what they haven't done.
Speaker B:It was really Like a fun writing exercise and a challenge.
Speaker B:I was literally like, can I do it?
Speaker B:If I can't do it, I won't make it.
Speaker B:Let's see if I can do it in a way that other people are interested in.
Speaker B:It was fun to write that way.
Speaker B:You know, I don't know that I've done that before as like an exercise.
Speaker A:And how did that fun writing exercise translate to directing?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I love directing so much.
Speaker B:It's like such a deep obsession of mine.
Speaker B:The nice thing about directing something that you've written is you have seen it in your head so many times, so you have a pretty good understanding of how it could go.
Speaker B:And then when you add in these amazing elements of the performers who come with their own personalities and their own approaches, then you have it in your head how it could go.
Speaker B:And then you see it how it is going.
Speaker B:And sometimes that's way better, and sometimes it's just very different from how you imagine.
Speaker B:So then the directing piece is melding those two thoughts together into the best version of what's in front of you.
Speaker B:And sometimes that's pulling them back closer to how you imagine, and sometimes that's you completely going over to their side and what they're working on and how they're doing it, because it's so interesting and different and amazing.
Speaker B:And so I feel like so much of directing is really being aware in real time of what you're getting and shaping it from there.
Speaker B:And luckily, I had the most amazing cast.
Speaker B:They're so agile and they were so game.
Speaker B:So it really felt like we could do anything.
Speaker B:And, you know, we had tight days, tight shooting days.
Speaker B:Our schedule was not cushy.
Speaker B:But luckily, I mean, these guys showed up every day with 10 pages of dialogue memorized.
Speaker B:And so then we got to play.
Speaker B:And I'm eternally grateful for them being so prepared and so wonderful to work with because that allowed us to get these performances.
Speaker A:And when it came to the edit, after writing the film, pre production filming, how clear was the image?
Speaker B:A great question.
Speaker B:It's just this whole other thing.
Speaker B:And then it's just this whole other thing.
Speaker B:And, you know, what we ended up doing at one point is I have an amazing editor, Henry Hayes, who's here in New York, and he and I were very aligned on, like, the tone and the speed and the rhythm.
Speaker B:But what ended up happening?
Speaker B:At a certain point, we had kind of finished the movie, and then there were these lovely monologues that they performed that were so good, but they were monologues they were like two pages each for two of the characters and they were so well acted.
Speaker B:But then it just came to us that we had to get rid of them.
Speaker B:So we cut like 10 minutes out of the movie late, like after we had already finished it because it just, it felt like almost over explaining.
Speaker B:And we were like, we need to keep it short and sweet and let that develop and not what it actually was, was a remnant.
Speaker B:Because I had made that, I had written this as a short film to begin with.
Speaker B:And those monologues worked so well in short film because, you know, I'm sorry, in a short story, because you really want to get inside the heads of the people.
Speaker B:But then in feature form, they just didn't belong there.
Speaker B:So that's also just something that is hard to do because those, those were some of my favorite writing moments and some of my favorite acting moments in the movie, but they just, they didn't need to be there.
Speaker A:Something funny or interesting that I just wanted to point out because it's a.
Speaker A:To a point, you can be intentional about it, but like when writing a film going into production, you.
Speaker A:You just don't know when this one will come out.
Speaker A:But I just, I just love these little seasonal switch ups, as in the film is premiering at the beginning of summer and it is set on New Year's Eve.
Speaker A:Is there something about that threshold moment that made it the right time for these truths to emerge?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I mean, New Year's is such like a storied event in terms of setting intentions for the next year.
Speaker B:And I feel like everyone comes into the house as one version of themselves and they leave the next day, hopefully as a truer version.
Speaker B:And that's, I guess, is part of the goals of New Year's Eve is to be like, this is who I want to be next year and this is who I am and this is what I'm doing.
Speaker B:And I think everyone in this movie leaves in a very different place.
Speaker B:Hopefully closer to the truth.
Speaker B:That's the goal.
Speaker B:That's kind of one of the themes of the movie is how much truth is in true love.
Speaker B:And I think they all leave closer to that.
Speaker A:After directing this story about secrets exploding into the open.
Speaker A:And yeah, by now I'm sure knowing it by heart, to put it lightly.
Speaker A:What's your current relationship with the project and even specifically the story, the characters, like at the beginning of Tribeca.
Speaker B:Well, now I feel like I can finally watch it as a viewer because I feel like every time I've seen it before now I'VE been like, what can I change?
Speaker B:Got to get the music.
Speaker B:Gotta, you know, and now I feel like I can finally.
Speaker B:And also because I wrote it, what feels like so long ago now.
Speaker B:Like, I think I started writing this probably four years ago, and I was almost a different person then, as we all are.
Speaker B:So it's almost like me getting to watch the previous version of myself and what they were thinking about.
Speaker B:And I'm.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:I'm interested.
Speaker B:I'm like, okay, Interesting thoughts that you were, you know, that's what you.
Speaker B:Me.
Speaker B:She was feeling.
Speaker B:And it's nice to get to watch it in this new way.
Speaker B:And I'm.
Speaker B:I'm really just so excited for people to see it and see what they think.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's super fascinating.
Speaker A:As in, this one is not one of those because it's.
Speaker A:It's pretty raw.
Speaker A:But how even the most fictional story to the ones making it feels like at the same time, somewhat of a documentary.
Speaker A:As in, you have all those memories attached to moments in the film about making it.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I'll remember, like, you know, the issues we were having with making that tree fall and we got rained out on this shot, and I didn't get to get the reverse angle of this one thing because we had to move on.
Speaker B:And of course, all that's in my head, but I feel like now I can just watch it.
Speaker A:Well, Nora, once again, thank you so, so much for taking the time for this lovely chat and.
Speaker A:Yeah, have a lovely fast.
Speaker B:Okay, thank you so much.
Speaker B:It was nice to talk to you.
